ORAL HISTORY TRANSCRIPT for CENTER FOR OAK RIDGE ORAL HISTORY INTERVIEWEE: CLYDE HOPKINS INTERVIEWER: KEITH MCDANIEL Date of Interview: December 10, 2011 Location of Interview: Oak Ridge, Tennessee Videotaped by: KEITH MCDANIEL for Secret City Films KEITH MCDANIEL: My name is KEITH MCDANIEL and today is December the 10th, 2011 and I am at the hope of Mr. CLYDE HOPKINS here in Oak Ridge. And Mr. Hopkins it's nice to meet you today. CLYDE HOPKINS: Good to meet you. KEITH MCDANIEL: Thank you for uh taking time to talk with us a little bit. This is a beautiful home you've got here, nice section of Oak Ridge and so were real comfortable. Tell me, tell me where you were born and raised and lets kind of go back to the beginning -- CLYDE HOPKINS: Okay. KEITH MCDANIEL: Tell me about your family. CLYDE HOPKINS: Okay now I was born down in West Tennessee in a little town called Brownsville. it's in Haywood County, about fifty miles north of Memphis. KEITH MCDANIEL: Okay. CLYDE HOPKINS: I lived out of the city of Brownsville, with the town of Brownsville, on a farm. And we did farming when I grew up. KEITH MCDANIEL: What year were you born? CLYDE HOPKINS: I was born in 1929. KEITH MCDANIEL: 1929, you were a depression baby weren't you? CLYDE HOPKINS: I was. KEITH MCDANIEL: So you lived on a farm, you grew up on a farm. You have brothers and sisters? CLYDE HOPKINS: Have one brother, or had one brother. He is dead now. KEITH MCDANIEL: And your father was, you were a farming family? CLYDE HOPKINS: Yeah, well we were a farming family but we had a country grocery store and my father was also commissioner of roads in the county. KEITH MCDANIEL: Oh Is that right? Okay so that sounds like your typical rural county. CLYDE HOPKINS: Yup, it was rural. There was no industry of any kind in our county when I grew up. None -- KEITH MCDANIEL: None huh? Well what about the school system. You went to school there I imagine? CLYDE HOPKINS: Yeah I went to school out close to where I lived in grade school and then I went to high school in Brownsville. We just had one high school in the county. KEITH MCDANIEL: Right. CLYDE HOPKINS: And I went to high school there. I think there was about three hundred and fifty kids in that high school -- KEITH MCDANIEL: Is that right? CLYDE HOPKINS: --even though we only had one. KEITH MCDANIEL: Well what do you remember about, like I said, your fist ten years of life was during the depression. What can you remember? CLYDE HOPKINS: Well I can remember an awful lot. People were having a hard time getting any money for anything. I can remember the WPA -- KEITH MCDANIEL: really CLYDE HOPKINS: -- and people clearing off right aways on the road and doing all kinds of things on the WPA program. Those who didn't own farms then and have another way of making money, they couldn't, they just couldn't make it. They had to go on WPA. KEITH MCDANIEL: Right, Right. I mean it was just tough for everybody. My father worked on the WPA as a matter of fact. He was born in 1918 so he was old enough to work by the time the depression came around. CLYDE HOPKINS: Yeah. KEITH MCDANIEL: So you went to high school there. And then you went onto college? Tell me how did that happen. CLYDE HOPKINS: Well I went to college in Jackson, Tennessee. its a baptist college called Union University. And I went there because I got a football scholarship to play football there. KEITH MCDANIEL: Is that right? CLYDE HOPKINS: And I played the first two years, then I decided if I was going to really learn anything I better go do something else. And I had decided by then, I wanted to get a lot of accounting courses and major in accounting. So I went to Bowling Green Kentucky for my last tow years and graduated for Bowling Green Kentucky with a business degree majoring in accounting. KEITH MCDANIEL: And what year was that that you graduated? CLYDE HOPKINS: I graduated in 1951. KEITH MCDANIEL: 1951. Okay. So you played football? What position did you play? CLYDE HOPKINS: Guard in college and tackle in high school. KEITH MCDANIEL: Is that right? Well I mean you don't look like a football player. CLYDE HOPKINS: I was a little heavier then. KEITH MCDANIEL: You must have been pretty tough. CLYDE HOPKINS: When you get older everything goes away, including your muscle with everything else. i'm eighty two years old now -- KEITH MCDANIEL: Oh my. CLYDE HOPKINS: So I don't have any muscle left but back then I had a lot from working on the farm and building bridges for the county and that kind of stuff. KEITH MCDANIEL: Oh i'm sure. CLYDE HOPKINS: I was in good shape then. KEITH MCDANIEL: i'm sure. Well so you graduated from Bowling Green in accounting, right? CLYDE HOPKINS: Right. Went to Louisville Kentucky to work for a CPA firm. This was during the Korean War and I went up there knowing I was going to get drafted so I worked there about nine months and here came the draft man. KEITH MCDANIEL: Sure CLYDE HOPKINS: And said I had to go down to Memphis, which was the closest thing to where I grew up. KEITH MCDANIEL: Sure CLYDE HOPKINS: For my army physical. KEITH MCDANIEL:Alright, Okay. CLYDE HOPKINS: Well strangely enough, when we came back to Brownsville on the bus that day from memphis with a bunch of other guys. The guy who headed up the process of getting people to go into the service happened to be at the bus and he was talking to my dad and he said you know they're hiring people up in Oak Ridge, Tennessee. And if your son got a job in Oak Ridge, Tennessee I might be able to get him a deferment. KEITH MCDANIEL: Is that right? CLYDE HOPKINS: The next day we were in the car heading to Oak Ridge and it turns out I flunked the physical. KEITH MCDANIEL: Oh Is that right? CLYDE HOPKINS: So it didn't make any difference. KEITH MCDANIEL: Oh my goodness. CLYDE HOPKINS: But by then i'd come to Oak Ridge for an interview is the day after i'd had my physical and got hired that day. KEITH MCDANIEL: Did you really? CLYDE HOPKINS: So I decided I believe i'll move from Louisville down here. KEITH MCDANIEL: My goodness CLYDE HOPKINS: So that started it all. KEITH MCDANIEL: Yup, Yup. So what year was that fifty-two? CLYDE HOPKINS: That was fifty-two KEITH MCDANIEL: fifty-two CLYDE HOPKINS: March fifty-two. KEITH MCDANIEL: March of fifty-two. CLYDE HOPKINS: Came to work here. KEITH MCDANIEL: And you were single, at the time? Where you single? CLYDE HOPKINS: No my wife, we were married in the last two years of college, when we were married. So she got a job in Louisville too and then she came down when I interviewed here and she went and interviewed and she got a job. KEITH MCDANIEL: Is that right? CLYDE HOPKINS: so we both started in March 10, 1952. KEITH MCDANIEL: Now who was that for? Was that for union carbide or? CLYDE HOPKINS: Yeah that was union carbide at the Y-12 plant. KEITH MCDANIEL: Right, Right. So that was 1952, you and your wife came to Oak Ridge and did you have any children at the time? CLYDE HOPKINS: Nope, no children. KEITH MCDANIEL: And so what was your job? Tell me about that. CLYDE HOPKINS: Well I hired in on a weekly payroll as an accounting clerk. KEITH MCDANIEL: Uh huh CLYDE HOPKINS: Started from there and then worked myself into the process of doing the production scheduling for the Y-12 plant. KEITH MCDANIEL: Oh Is that right? CLYDE HOPKINS: The Y-12 plant was then converting to the advanced nuclear weapons. KEITH MCDANIEL: Right. CLYDE HOPKINS: And just getting started and so I got hired to try to lay the schedules out for all the operations in the plant and had them all come out at the end so we could assemble things. KEITH MCDANIEL: Exactly. CLYDE HOPKINS: So thats what I started doing. KEITH MCDANIEL: Oh okay. Now what did your wife, what did she -- CLYDE HOPKINS: She worked, the people in personnel who hired her like her so she worked as a secretary. KEITH MCDANIEL: Oh Is that right? CLYDE HOPKINS: Fourteen years. KEITH MCDANIEL: I guess they got first pick didn't they. if they found somebody they liked, they were going to hold on to them probably. CLYDE HOPKINS: I'll get her in here and let yawl meet her in a little while. KEITH MCDANIEL: And I guess the personnel building was down in the Tunnel building. Was that at that point the Tunnel building? CLYDE HOPKINS: It was up in the north portal parking lot. KEITH MCDANIEL: Oh was it? CLYDE HOPKINS: It was a long thin building -- KEITH MCDANIEL: was it at Y-12? CLYDE HOPKINS: In the north portal. KEITH MCDANIEL: Now when your first came here and got your job, now where did you live? CLYDE HOPKINS: I lived in the apartments right behind Penny's. Those brick apartments behind Penny's. KEITH MCDANIEL: Yeah. CLYDE HOPKINS: That particular building had just opened. KEITH MCDANIEL: Oh Is that right? CLYDE HOPKINS: No body lived in it and we were the first occupants. KEITH MCDANIEL: Oh Is that right? CLYDE HOPKINS: 216 North Purdue. KEITH MCDANIEL: Really? I wondered when those were built. I figured the were building in the 50's. Something like that. CLYDE HOPKINS: Right, so we lived there again for eight years. KEITH MCDANIEL: Really Okay. CLYDE HOPKINS: An uh lets see, maybe not quite eight years. I think it was in 1958 we rented an east village house because we were going to have our first child. KEITH MCDANIEL: Oh really? Okay. So your wife worked until the baby came. CLYDE HOPKINS: Yup, she hasn't worked since. KEITH MCDANIEL: Right, right. At least she hasn't been on somebodys payroll. I understand, i've got a wife. We've got to be careful about that one, how we say those things. CLYDE HOPKINS: Yeah we do. KEITH MCDANIEL: Don't we? CLYDE HOPKINS: Well after being married to her 62 years I probably have more flexibility. KEITH MCDANIEL: That is true, that is true. Um so -- so lets talk about that then we'll go back to your job. So you moved back into East Village. CLYDE HOPKINS: East Village and I stayed there then the property started being sold here. Sold off I think it was '58 or nine. Somewhere in there. Late fifties anyway. And we bought a lot right down [Break in Audio] KEITH MCDANIEL: uh huh. CLYDE HOPKINS: And built our first house. KEITH MCDANIEL: Oh Is that right? CLYDE HOPKINS: Uh huh KEITH MCDANIEL: Okay. CLYDE HOPKINS: And we lived there from 1960 until lets no where lived there from 1970. Yeah 1960 to 1972. KEITH MCDANIEL: '72 Okay. CLYDE HOPKINS: '72 and then. Well in the mean time before, while all this was going on, I worked in Y-12 for eighteen years. KEITH MCDANIEL: Right. CLYDE HOPKINS: Then I got transferred to central accounting. KEITH MCDANIEL: Oh Is that right? CLYDE HOPKINS: To head up central accounting and it was located in K-25. KEITH MCDANIEL: Oh Is that right? CLYDE HOPKINS: So I worked -- KEITH MCDANIEL: and central accounting was for Union carbide because Union Carbide was running all the plants. CLYDE HOPKINS: So I stayed in central accounting for exactly two years. Then I got transferred to the Paducah plant as a plant manager. KEITH MCDANIEL: Oh Is that right? CLYDE HOPKINS: Yup. KEITH MCDANIEL: Well my goodness. CLYDE HOPKINS: We enjoyed that transfer so much. KEITH MCDANIEL: Hold on I think we have an issue. [Break in Audio] KEITH MCDANIEL: Okay we're back. Had a little microphone issue we needed to resolve and now we're back. So alright lets talk about before you went to Paducah. Before you went there. So you worked out at Y-12 and your first job was just an account? CLYDE HOPKINS: Yeah. KEITH MCDANIEL: An accountant office. Now who did you work for, who was your boss? CLYDE HOPKINS: Well I worked for old Al Bissell. KEITH MCDANIEL: Oh Is that right? CLYDE HOPKINS: I'm sure you've heard that name. Al hired me as a matter of fact. And he was my boss for several hears there. About for or five years. KEITH MCDANIEL: I didn't know, was he an accountant. is that what he did? CLYDE HOPKINS: Well I think so. i'm not sure what Al did, he was a politician. KEITH MCDANIEL: He was a politician. For those of you who don't know Al Bissell was Oak Ridge's first mayor. CLYDE HOPKINS: First mayor and I think he was mayor for twenty seven or twenty eight years. Something like that. KEITH MCDANIEL: Oak Ridge's mayor for a long long time. CLYDE HOPKINS: A great guy. I really just enjoyed knowing him and his family. Just had a great place to work there with Al. KEITH MCDANIEL: Right. CLYDE HOPKINS: Then I transferred about after four years up to the production facility. The building 1912. KEITH MCDANIEL: Is that when you were scheduling doing the scheduling. CLYDE HOPKINS: Yeah all that time thats what I was invalid in. KEITH MCDANIEL: Uh huh and that was about the time that Y-12 was transitioning over to, we can say it now. Over to the secondaries I guess. CLYDE HOPKINS: uh huh right. KEITH MCDANIEL: So and they were producing those. CLYDE HOPKINS: Producing secondaries. KEITH MCDANIEL: Secondaries for the nuclear weapons stock pile. CLYDE HOPKINS: Right, Yup. So I did all the scheduling, man power calculating, all that stuff for the production areas. All of them. KEITH MCDANIEL: Is that right? For the whole plant basically? All the production areas -- CLYDE HOPKINS: All the production areas. KEITH MCDANIEL: Well that was a big responsibility wasn't it? CLYDE HOPKINS: We had a lot of fun with that. KEITH MCDANIEL: Did you? CLYDE HOPKINS: Because there was something in those days when the country was still doing um testing out west. Air testing -- KEITH MCDANIEL: Right. CLYDE HOPKINS: And they knew that that was a possibility was going to close down sometime in the near future. KEITH MCDANIEL: Sure CLYDE HOPKINS: So they worked hard out there on all kinds of designs and they would send us ORiNS in and they would want the parts back in eighteen days. KEITH MCDANIEL: Is that right? CLYDE HOPKINS: So we worked around the clock for several years there on what we called eighteen day turn around. KEITH MCDANIEL: Eighteen day turn around. You know the problem with that is that is those guys were going out telling everybody we can do anything. CLYDE HOPKINS: Yeah. KEITH MCDANIEL: They said well you just tell us what you want. You want it tomorrow, we can do it. They wouldn't say no to anybody would they? CLYDE HOPKINS: No they wouldn't. KEITH MCDANIEL: But so who did you work for. Who was your manager or your supervisor? CLYDE HOPKINS: I worked for a fellow named John Harding who reported then to Jack Case who was a division director. KEITH MCDANIEL: Right right. CLYDE HOPKINS: So those were the two guys I had as a supervisor there. KEITH MCDANIEL: Now during that time, how many people were working at Y-12? CLYDE HOPKINS: Oh about 5,000. KEITH MCDANIEL: That what, and how many of those were in production. CLYDE HOPKINS: Uh Oh I'd say 3,500 or something like that. 3,000 or 3,500. KEITH MCDANIEL: Right, Right. CLYDE HOPKINS: I've forgotten all those numbers by now. Anyway it was a place to live and work then we got a new plant manager in Y-12 whose name was Bob Jordan. KEITH MCDANIEL: Okay. CLYDE HOPKINS: And they were unhappy with the counting process in Y-12. And they wanted me to come down and work in the accounting department. KEITH MCDANIEL: Oh really? CLYDE HOPKINS: The Y-12 accounting department, not K-25 but Y-12. KEITH MCDANIEL: Right. CLYDE HOPKINS: So I went down and -- KEITH MCDANIEL: --straightened them out? CLYDE HOPKINS: With the help of couple other guys we put in a cost accounting system where all the manufacturings operations. Did that for two year and that was just before I got transferred to K-25 -- KEITH MCDANIEL: Right CLYDE HOPKINS: to do, to be responsible for all of the accounting for the company. KEITH MCDANIEL: Now this was before computers wasn't it? CLYDE HOPKINS: Yeah we used marchant calculators. KEITH MCDANIEL: Is that right? CLYDE HOPKINS: and Freedman. KEITH MCDANIEL: So you did that at Y-12 and then you went to central accounting. CLYDE HOPKINS: In sometime in there I think a couple years before I went to central accounting, the organization was changed and I got the responsibility, not only in the production scheduling but for all the product engineering. KEITH MCDANIEL: Oh really. CLYDE HOPKINS: Relating to the design lab in California and New Mexico. So thats why I was involved in those eighteen day turn arounds. KEITH MCDANIEL: Well tell me a little bit, you didn't have a technical background but you had an accounting and business management background and I guess thats what they needed -- CLYDE HOPKINS: to make sure they were working on the right thing [Break in Audio] CLYDE HOPKINS: and we can put them as secondaries. KEITH MCDANIEL: And you did it for what you were getting it paid for to do. CLYDE HOPKINS: Yup thats right. KEITH MCDANIEL: You know so make sure you weren't spending a lot more than what you were getting paid to do I suppose. CLYDE HOPKINS: Yup it was a good task. KEITH MCDANIEL: Yeah I bet it was. Now did you have, when you were doing that did you have people that worked for you? CLYDE HOPKINS: Oh yeah. KEITH MCDANIEL: A staff of people that-- CLYDE HOPKINS: Yeah I had a staff of people KEITH MCDANIEL: Okay we were talking about you being in charge of all the production. Managing all the time. CLYDE HOPKINS: Right. KEITH MCDANIEL: and then you went to, then you went to K-25. You moved out there for. CLYDE HOPKINS: Central accounting. KEITH MCDANIEL: Central accounting. Now what did you do there? CLYDE HOPKINS: Well I was the head of it. and the president of the company then who was Roger Hibbs was not happy with the performance and the performance before me and he sent me down to do several specific things, which I was able to accomplish. KEITH MCDANIEL: Right, right. CLYDE HOPKINS: So I stayed there two years and then got transferred to Paducah. KEITH MCDANIEL: Well tell me about that. So you got transferred to Paducah as the plant manager. CLYDE HOPKINS: as the plant manager. KEITH MCDANIEL: for Union Carbide. Cause that was Paducah was kind of part of the whole contract. CLYDE HOPKINS: the whole operation here in Oak Ridge plus Paducah, the martin contract. KEITH MCDANIEL: So when you went to Paducah tell me about, and what year was that? CLYDE HOPKINS: That was 1972 KEITH MCDANIEL: 1972 and you went to Paducah and they were basically operating an enriching facility, like K-25. CLYDE HOPKINS: Like K-25, that right. KEITH MCDANIEL: Now how big, now how big was it compared to K to the K-25 site. CLYDE HOPKINS: Paducah was operating with out 1,800 people when I went there. KEITH MCDANIEL: Oh Okay. CLYDE HOPKINS: And they were in the midst. We were just getting started with a cascade improvement upgrading program. KEITH MCDANIEL: Oh really. CLYDE HOPKINS: Yeah so when I got up there just about the time that that was underway. KEITH MCDANIEL: And that was that big 1.5 Billion dollar cascade improvement program. CLYDE HOPKINS: And we spent about almost half a billion in Paducah. KEITH MCDANIEL: Is that right? CLYDE HOPKINS: But it happens to be the only plant thats still running KEITH MCDANIEL: Oh there you go,there you go. So you went out there and had about 1,800 people working there and so how long -- CLYDE HOPKINS: well to accommodate the cascade improvement program, we went up to about 2,500 people. What we did in Paducah different from what we did from Oak Ridge and Portsmouth is rather than hiring experienced craftsmen to come in to be welders and electricians and pipe fitters and all that stuff. We hired people off the farm. KEITH MCDANIEL: Really? CLYDE HOPKINS: and brought them in and trained them to do those things. KEITH MCDANIEL: Right, Right. CLYDE HOPKINS: And had great success with that. KEITH MCDANIEL: Is that right? CLYDE HOPKINS: Sure did. KEITH MCDANIEL: Well that's one thing. You hire people that doesn't know anything and you teach them, you raise them up the way you want them. CLYDE HOPKINS: That right and they're hard working people and we used to make comparisons in how long it took us to do a specific job. KEITH MCDANIEL: Right. CLYDE HOPKINS: Compared to the other two sites. And I had prepared everybody for the competition. And we are going to win this thing, it wasn't even close. KEITH MCDANIEL: Was it not? Cause you had a little inside knowledge about Oak Ridge didn't you? CLYDE HOPKINS: Yeah I did. KEITH MCDANIEL: You kind of knew what they were doing and how they did things. So good. So how long were you at Paducah. CLYDE HOPKINS: Six years to the day. KEITH MCDANIEL: Really? Okay. CLYDE HOPKINS: And then I got transferred back, still under carbide to the Oak Ridge national laboratory and Herman Postma was the director and I was second in charge. They called me executive director. KEITH MCDANIEL: Oh Is that right? CLYDE HOPKINS: I just worked over there lets see through '78 to '81. KEITH MCDANIEL: Uh huh. CLYDE HOPKINS: Then they decided what they were going to put all the gaseous diffusion plants under one operation. Put them together and I got made Vice President of union carbide to do that. And shortly after I got made vice President of union Carbide we picked up the Portsmouth plant that was being operated by Goodyear corporation. KEITH MCDANIEL: Right. CLYDE HOPKINS: So I had that job then for about three years of something like that. KEITH MCDANIEL: I'll tell you, you just rose up from the ranks from being a lowly-- CLYDE HOPKINS: -- A little bit at a time KEITH MCDANIEL: --accountant you know right out of college didn't you? CLYDE HOPKINS: I was kind of lucky. KEITH MCDANIEL: I'm sure there is more than luck involved there. CLYDE HOPKINS: We went to, when we went to the new contract at Martin Marietta. We assumed that most of us at the top would get run off but they kept the top twenty six people. KEITH MCDANIEL: Did they really? CLYDE HOPKINS: And I got to be senior vice president for them then. KEITH MCDANIEL: Oh did you? And what year -- CLYDE HOPKINS: in charge of all production. KEITH MCDANIEL: In charge of all production for everywhere. Now where, what year was that they came in. CLYDE HOPKINS: 1984. KEITH MCDANIEL: '84 thats what I was thinking. And a lot of changes happened in that mid eighties. Martin Marietta took over, Joe Lagrone came to town. CLYDE HOPKINS: Joe came to town. KEITH MCDANIEL: And the whole environmental issue kind of look of at that point wasn't it? CLYDE HOPKINS: Yeah and we got a new admiral running the department of energy in Washington who believed we ought to do things a lot differently. KEITH MCDANIEL: Oh I bet that was. I interview a gentleman yesterday who said he retired in '93. He said from '83 to '93 was the toughest ten years he ever worked. So i'm sure after you'd been doing something a certain way for a certain amount of time you know it's kind of hard to -- CLYDE HOPKINS: You know Martin Marietta really didn't bring in that many people. I think they may have brought in twenty, twenty five people. Also including the president. KEITH MCDANIEL: Yeah. CLYDE HOPKINS: I reported the the president and the lab reported to the president. KEITH MCDANIEL: Right CLYDE HOPKINS: But there really wasn't all that difference and they didn't know much about it when they came in and you wouldn't expect them too. KEITH MCDANIEL: Sure. CLYDE HOPKINS: They hadn't had any exposer to something like this. KEITH MCDANIEL: Sure exactly. CLYDE HOPKINS: So we helped them all get educated and things went smoothly, very smoothly. And the cooperation then decided to take the buy they brought here, sent here back to headquarters and thats when I moved up into the top spot. KEITH MCDANIEL: Oh Is that right? CLYDE HOPKINS: That was 19-- late '80, late '87 or early '88. KEITH MCDANIEL: And that was, and what was that job again? CLYDE HOPKINS: President of the Martin Marietta energy group. KEITH MCDANIEL: Oh was that right? So wow, that was and the Martin Marietta Energy Group was doing Oak Ridge-- CLYDE HOPKINS: Oak Ridge, Portsmouth, A plant in Florida and a small operation in California KEITH MCDANIEL: Now who was doing Paducah at this point? CLYDE HOPKINS: and Paducah-- KEITH MCDANIEL: Oh that was Paducah was part of Oak Ridge, was considered part of Oak Ridge. So I bet you had to travel a lot. CLYDE HOPKINS: All the time. KEITH MCDANIEL: Did you really? All the time. CLYDE HOPKINS: On the road all the time. KEITH MCDANIEL: Well my goodness. CLYDE HOPKINS: A lot of ground to cover. But I enjoyed everyday of it. I didn't have many bad days in my 43 years out there. KEITH MCDANIEL: Really? CLYDE HOPKINS: 43 years plus. KEITH MCDANIEL: And then when did you retire? CLYDE HOPKINS: I retired October 1st, '95. Gave me 43 years of service. KEITH MCDANIEL: 43 years service. Well lets go back. Tell me something about through your whole 43 years, what were some of the, the big moments. Maybe some of the big challenges that you had to face. CLYDE HOPKINS: Well I think the biggest challenge we had to face was getting those people in off the farm and getting them proper truanted to be excellent mechanics of all kinds. KEITH MCDANIEL: in Paducah. CLYDE HOPKINS: In Paducah. That was a real challenge. And we had, it wasn't so much a challenge in terms of being able to teach them to do the work. But to teach them to do it safely. KEITH MCDANIEL: Right. CLYDE HOPKINS: And we had a lot of problems with lost time, what we called then lost time injuries. You get hurt enough that you can't come to work the next day-- KEITH MCDANIEL: Sure. CLYDE HOPKINS: -- Call it a lost time injury. So we had to do a lot more safety training for those people but one of lowest boxes we had a guy that got electrocuted. KEITH MCDANIEL: Oh Is that right? CLYDE HOPKINS: in Paducah. And I felt so badly about that because when I went there and got a little bit aquatinted with what was going on and saw the possibilities of having real safety problems. I decided I was going to talk to all 1,800 people in the plant and I did. KEITH MCDANIEL: Indivdually? CLYDE HOPKINS: Well in about forty at a time. KEITH MCDANIEL: Is that right? CLYDE HOPKINS: Had little groups so they would feel comfortable in asking questions and so on. And I kind of had a premonition then that we were going to hit something bad, then I kept telling them. You know you guys get so much exposure here you just have to make one little error and somebody will be dead. KEITH MCDANIEL: Right. CLYDE HOPKINS: And low and behold it happened. KEITH MCDANIEL: Is that right? CLYDE HOPKINS: Worst, lowest spot in my whole career. KEITH MCDANIEL: Oh i'm sure, i'm sure. Now whose idea was it, instead of bringing in the trained people, to bring in untrained and train them yourselves. Was that yours? CLYDE HOPKINS: No the people in Paducah had begun to plan for that -- KEITH MCDANIEL: Oh had they? CLYDE HOPKINS: --before I got there. But I agreed with it whole heartedly. KEITH MCDANIEL: Sure, Sure. CLYDE HOPKINS: Just think of what we did for the community. All these people learned something different. KEITH MCDANIEL: Oh i'm sure. CLYDE HOPKINS: Learn a trade. KEITH MCDANIEL: Exactly, exactly. Well its kind of like when Oak Ridge first started. You know they brought in a lot of the locals to work. You know just about anyone who wanted to work at Oak Ridge could get a job, you know during the project I guess. CLYDE HOPKINS: Absolutely. KEITH MCDANIEL: So anyway. That was a big challenge. What were some of your other. CLYDE HOPKINS: Well-- KEITH MCDANIEL: Challenges or moments. CLYDE HOPKINS: Think here just a second. I guess really getting the work we had done in Paducah on done, on time and at lowest cost than anybody else. it was what made me as proud as any moment i've had in my whole work career. KEITH MCDANIEL: Really? CLYDE HOPKINS: Yeah. And as I said earlier I haven't had any down days except that one when that poor guy got electrocuted. KEITH MCDANIEL: But i'm sure you've had some challenges. i'm not trying to dig into, you know-- CLYDE HOPKINS: Yeah. Well every new job was a challenge. I always said when I transferred, not having a technical background. When I transferred anywhere to another job, I felt like a lost dog in tall weeds, for about three months. KEITH MCDANIEL: Oh i'm sure, you had to learn. You had to learn it and how it was done. CLYDE HOPKINS: Get a speaking acquaintance for what was going on in the plant. KEITH MCDANIEL: Exactly. CLYDE HOPKINS: interesting side bit here. I was sitting in my office one day in Paducah, about ten o'clock in the morning and I get this call from the personnel people that a visitor has come in. And he said Vice President -- senior moment here, forgive me. KEITH MCDANIEL: Thats alright. CLYDE HOPKINS: Anyway he was the vice president and gosh I saw him on TV a couple nights ago, i'll think of his name. KEITH MCDANIEL: Okay. CLYDE HOPKINS: But they said he's here to see you. KEITH MCDANIEL: The Vice President of the United States CLYDE HOPKINS: is here to see you. I thought they were pulling my leg. KEITH MCDANIEL: Oh of course. CLYDE HOPKINS: I didn't believe that at all. And sure enough they escorted me out of my office and there he was. KEITH MCDANIEL: What year was that? CLYDE HOPKINS: That was about 1974 I guess. KEITH MCDANIEL: So it wasn't Agnew. CLYDE HOPKINS: No it was before Agnew. No after, excuse me after Agnew KEITH MCDANIEL: After Agnew. CLYDE HOPKINS: Oh, Mondale! KEITH MCDANIEL: Walter Mondale CLYDE HOPKINS: Walter Mondale. I don't know why I couldn't come up with that. Thats what happens to you when you become 82 years old. The old memory fades a little. KEITH MCDANIEL: So he just walked in and wanted to see you. CLYDE HOPKINS: He walked in and said he was just interested in seeing this plant. He didn't have anybody with him. He was buy himself. He had driven himself out to the plant, I don't know what he was doing in Paducah. KEITH MCDANIEL: I don't know what secret service, what that says about the secret service. CLYDE HOPKINS: Yeah. KEITH MCDANIEL: Maybe you go ahead Mr. Vice President. Just go by yourself you'll be fine. CLYDE HOPKINS: He came in and we sat down and we chatted about the plant and its history for a hour, maybe two hours. Very interesting conversation. We went back to the cafeteria and had lunch with me. KEITH MCDANIEL: Is that right? CLYDE HOPKINS: And I was, he was a bright guy. I don't care what they say about him. He was a bright guy. KEITH MCDANIEL: Yeah. CLYDE HOPKINS: And we had lunch and then I gave him a tour around the plant and then he went away and I never heard another word from him one way or another. KEITH MCDANIEL: Really? Thats amazing. CLYDE HOPKINS: Thats the most unusual thing i've had happen I think. KEITH MCDANIEL: Did you have your picture made with him? CLYDE HOPKINS: Yeah KEITH MCDANIEL: i'm sure you did. CLYDE HOPKINS: i've got pictures made with most of them. KEITH MCDANIEL: Otherwise people wouldn't have believed you huh? CLYDE HOPKINS: No. And the people in the cafeteria couldn't believe eh showed up. KEITH MCDANIEL: I bet CLYDE HOPKINS: For lunch. They recognized him of course he was so popular the, un poplar as the case might be. KEITH MCDANIEL: Yeah thats true. Well i'm sure like you said that really benefited the community because that was a rural area. CLYDE HOPKINS: it is. KEITH MCDANIEL: You know Paducah is a little city but mostly around it is-- CLYDE HOPKINS: but its a great city to live in. We enjoyed every day of it. KEITH MCDANIEL: Did you? CLYDE HOPKINS: Just as much as we enjoyed living here. its been a good run for us. KEITH MCDANIEL: I'll take a personal note here and tell my Paducah story. Back years ago, forgive me listener i'm indulging myself. But back years ago, when I was first starting out. I was doing all kinds of graphic design and marketing. And this is before I got into to film work and video. And a friend of mine called and said my sisters got a friend in Paducah, right outside of Paducah, who started this little company and it needs some marketing help. And he can't pay very much but he'd be willing to pay a little bit. So I go to Paducah, meet this guy. And sure enough it's a little company. I didn't know if it was going to make any anything or not. I didn't, it was an odd, i'll tell you what it is in a minute. it was this odd little company. So I designed the logo and their first brochure and took the first produce photos, and you know all those things. And I would go up and spend a couple days, a couple days a month for about six months until he kind of got to the point where you just didn't need anything else or couldn't afford me. Now I wasn't making very much anyway. Uh so anyway I said okay that was good, that was good experience and i've got that stuff somewhere in a file. But what it was, was this guy worked for the state of Kentucky and he was biologist and one of his jobs was the figure out who to keep manure from ruining, I guess. You know for fertilizer and things. He says you know I think if you liquify, if we liquify it and if we drop it into liquid nitrogen, those little drops will turn into little spheres. And we can freeze them and keep them frozen and then just spread them out like fertilizer. He says and that, thats this project he had. And one weekend he was thinking you know, I bet you could do that with ice cream. His company was Dippin Dots.= CLYDE HOPKINS: Yeah, thats where it came from. KEITH MCDANIEL: His company was Dippin Dots. He's been on, I saw him on Oprah last year, a couple years ago. He had made thirty six, he had personally made thirty six million dollars last year, something like that. CLYDE HOPKINS: Maybe you should have stuck with him. KEITH MCDANIEL: I know right, you know thats one of those decisions. But thats my Paducah story. Because he was right outside Paducah, thats where his office was. So what -- CLYDE HOPKINS: I guess obviously the highlight of the program has to be, when I got made President -- KEITH MCDANIEL: Yeah well tell me about that, was that expected. CLYDE HOPKINS: Martin Marietta is a great company to work for. Boy I couldn't have been treated better but after they got all this stuff they wanted to figure out how to have somebody in it who knew a little bit about it but would be able to communicate with them and their board of directors and the other requirements of the job. KEITH MCDANIEL: Sure, CLYDE HOPKINS: When I got that job I couldn't believe it. KEITH MCDANIEL: Really? CLYDE HOPKINS: No, here I am an dumb old accountant and up here on this job, somethings wrong. KEITH MCDANIEL: Oh my goodness. Now where, so where was your office? in Oak Ridge, where you in Oak Ridge? CLYDE HOPKINS: Yeah, it was in Oak Ridge. The split the, the reorganized the whole corporation and split it down into seven groups based on functions and I have one of those groups that was called the Energy Group. And all the rest of the Energy Group, all the rest of the Presidents of the groups where in Washington, accept me. KEITH MCDANIEL: Oh, Oh okay. CLYDE HOPKINS: in Maryland, thats where the headquarters are. Just outside Washington. And they wanted me to move up there and I said, I told my boss whose name wast Tom. I said Tom, you know i've lived here in Oak Ridge all this time and i'm not going to, I don't know how much more time i'm going to work-- KEITH MCDANIEL: Sure. CLYDE HOPKINS: I just as soon stay here. I don't want to come up there. KEITH MCDANIEL: Right. CLYDE HOPKINS: And I said besides I can't do anything good up there. You know talk to all you guys and all the other businesses I don't know anything about. KEITH MCDANIEL: Right. This is where the main work was going on, so you might as well be here. CLYDE HOPKINS: Might as well be here is where I need to be and they let me stay here. KEITH MCDANIEL: They let you stay here. So -- CLYDE HOPKINS: And I could also say that Joe Lagrone was a good guy to work with. KEITH MCDANIEL: Was he? Tell me about that. Tell me about Joe. CLYDE HOPKINS: Joe is one of the finest fellows i've ever known. He's like I as a country boy. And he worked his way up through the Department of Energy. He's energetic, enthusiastic, always tell you what he thinks. He's always on top of the table. Likes to have a good time. KEITH MCDANIEL: Sure. CLYDE HOPKINS: And I used to meet with him weekly and we'd talk over common issues between the, among the plants. KEITH MCDANIEL: And ya'll would go to this little burger joint and have a burger and a bear, wouldn't you? CLYDE HOPKINS: Yeah we would. KEITH MCDANIEL: Tell me. CLYDE HOPKINS: Yeah we also made it a practice to go out about two times a month at night -- KEITH MCDANIEL: Is that right? CLYDE HOPKINS: --When its just the two of us around. KEITH MCDANIEL: Sure. CLYDE HOPKINS: And talk about the issues. KEITH MCDANIEL: Really? CLYDE HOPKINS: Yeah. You could just be as honest as you wanted to be with him and he didn't hold it against you when it came time to handout fee's as long as you were honest with him. KEITH MCDANIEL: Right. CLYDE HOPKINS: Told you, told him what your going to do to fix whatever problem was. KEITH MCDANIEL: Right. CLYDE HOPKINS: And I think thats what made me successful enough for Joe to recommend me to get the top job. KEITH MCDANIEL: Oh Is that right? CLYDE HOPKINS: Yeah the new guy that came in, new president, I went with him every week. to meet with him and Joe. KEITH MCDANIEL: Oh I see. CLYDE HOPKINS: And he would Joe a little riled up every now and then and i'd calm the waters. KEITH MCDANIEL: Oh really? Really? You were the peacemaker. CLYDE HOPKINS: I was the peacemaker. KEITH MCDANIEL: And Joe thought that was a very attractive trait that you had. Wasn't it? CLYDE HOPKINS: But Joe is a good guy and i'm just glad to had, have the opportunity to work with him. KEITH MCDANIEL: Now when he came in, things. I mean that was, he kind of stirred the pot a little bit. CLYDE HOPKINS: Yeah, he stirred it a lot. KEITH MCDANIEL: Yeah so tell me about that. You know CLYDE HOPKINS: Well he didn't bother us, he did the most pot stirring down in his own operation KEITH MCDANIEL: Right CLYDE HOPKINS: But he did-- KEITH MCDANIEL: -- But it affected the whole operation. CLYDE HOPKINS: Yeah he did change on thing that was major. He put a DOE office in each of the plant sites. So up until then we didn't have a DOE office in the plant. And he put enough people into staff those. You know good people out there that we could work with. The DOE office for Y-12 was in the same building I was in. KEITH MCDANIEL: Oh really? CLYDE HOPKINS: So you just walked down the hall and talked to anybody in DOE. KEITH MCDANIEL: Right. CLYDE HOPKINS: So I think thats one of the good things that DOE did, um among many others. Of course they had all the connections in Washington and they helped as much as they could help., whenever we had any kind of issue. KEITH MCDANIEL: Right. CLYDE HOPKINS: But I had nothing but admiration for him. KEITH MCDANIEL: Well thats what I was going to ask you about, what was that relations like between. You know he was DOE's face in Oak Ridge I guess. CLYDE HOPKINS: Yes he was and had pretty good size swath in Washington too. KEITH MCDANIEL: Really? CLYDE HOPKINS: DOE Washington. KEITH MCDANIEL: Yeah, Yeah. CLYDE HOPKINS: So he was good for the job. KEITH MCDANIEL: Now one of the big things that Joe took on was the environmental clean up efforts. How was, talk a little about that. CLYDE HOPKINS: Well Joe was personally involved in that and he dragged me along too. We would go to meet with the governor when there were issues and there were area meetings with the environmental folks both state and feudal. KEITH MCDANIEL: Right. CLYDE HOPKINS: And we would go to those. He went personally, he didn't send somebody, he went personally. KEITH MCDANIEL: Right. CLYDE HOPKINS: And most of them I was with him and we stayed on the same track for what our real environmental issues where that we ought to be worried about. KEITH MCDANIEL: So he, he really wanted that open honest communication. CLYDE HOPKINS: Absolutely. KEITH MCDANIEL: He thought that was the only way you could fix things. CLYDE HOPKINS: Yup, thats right. KEITH MCDANIEL: Well that was, thats and you liked that CLYDE HOPKINS: I'll tell you what. I guess I initiated the first open door policy in the corporation. KEITH MCDANIEL: Oh really? CLYDE HOPKINS:Yeah when I went to Paducah, there was a loofa of friction between he Union and the management.And I think we sued to have contracts that ran for three or for years but have ways reopened it every year. KEITH MCDANIEL: Oh really? CLYDE HOPKINS: And I think when I went to Paducah they had struck the last five years in a row. KEITH MCDANIEL: Oh dang. CLYDE HOPKINS: And as a matter of fact I had been there about six weeks when they had a strike. So after that though I put in what I call the open door policy. KEITH MCDANIEL: Okay. CLYDE HOPKINS: And all these talks that I was making to people. I would say to them if anybody in this plant feels like they're being treated in to someway that's unfair or something needs to be changed and you can't get anything done about it. I don't care whether, what level your on, my door's always open. KEITH MCDANIEL: Really. CLYDE HOPKINS: And boy they walked through that door. KEITH MCDANIEL: Did they? CLYDE HOPKINS: A lot for a few months. KEITH MCDANIEL: Yeah. CLYDE HOPKINS: But it settled down and things, we never had another strike after. KEITH MCDANIEL: Is that right? CLYDE HOPKINS: All the years I was there and worked peacefully with the union. KEITH MCDANIEL: I guess thats just, they kind of it was the attitude of you know whether do these people really care? CLYDE HOPKINS: Right. KEITH MCDANIEL: They care, they care about us and that goes a long way just to kind of have that feeling. CLYDE HOPKINS: And I made it a point to walk through the plant at every week KEITH MCDANIEL: Really? CLYDE HOPKINS: Big part of it and to stop and talk to people on the machines or whatever they were doing. KEITH MCDANIEL: Sure. CLYDE HOPKINS: Make the acquaintance. Then I did my very best to remember it for the next time and I got to where I knew about half the people in that plant by name. KEITH MCDANIEL: Is that right? CLYDE HOPKINS: Yeah. KEITH MCDANIEL: Oh. CLYDE HOPKINS: Now I can't remember my own name KEITH MCDANIEL: Well that happens, that happens to us doesn't it? CLYDE HOPKINS: Start to deteriorate. KEITH MCDANIEL: Well when I, I interviewed Joe a couple months ago and Joe said you need to talk to CLYDE HOPKINS, thats how I knew the ya'll went to that burger joint. CLYDE HOPKINS: Oh okay. KEITH MCDANIEL: Joe said yeah i'd take Clyde and we'd go over to Knoxville and have a burger and a Budweiser. CLYDE HOPKINS: Yeah, solved a lot of problems that way. KEITH MCDANIEL: Solved a lot of problems. CLYDE HOPKINS: But its been a good run for him and for us. KEITH MCDANIEL: So CLYDE HOPKINS: I've had a good wife. She has put up with a lot, especially my travels. KEITH MCDANIEL: Right, right. CLYDE HOPKINS: We sold a lot of the enriched, power, nuclear power grade uranium to Japan. KEITH MCDANIEL: Right. CLYDE HOPKINS: You used to have to go over there every year or two. KEITH MCDANIEL: Oh did you? CLYDE HOPKINS: Gosh it was an awful trip. it lasted three weeks and we had to go to every nuclear power facility that they had over there. KEITH MCDANIEL: Really? CLYDE HOPKINS: Which was at that time, I think twelve different power companies. KEITH MCDANIEL: Sure. CLYDE HOPKINS: On the four islands and we had to travel to everyone one of those things. KEITH MCDANIEL: Wore you out didn't it? CLYDE HOPKINS: Took three weeks and of course they liked to party, you had to go out and eat dinner every night. When I got home it took me about a week to get over it all the time. KEITH MCDANIEL: but that was a big, Japan was big customer for the enriched uranium. CLYDE HOPKINS: Yeah I think it was about four hundred billion dollars a year. KEITH MCDANIEL: Was it? CLYDE HOPKINS: Yeah. KEITH MCDANIEL: Now how long did that last? And about what time frame was that? CLYDE HOPKINS: Well lets see that was, that was in 80, late '80's. Middle of late '80s and beyond. I don't really remember how far it went. But they're still selling stuff to Japan. KEITH MCDANIEL: Right CLYDE HOPKINS: USEC is. But one of the funny things is that they like to, Japanese like to come here and visit too. KEITH MCDANIEL: Yeah. CLYDE HOPKINS: So Ewin Kizer who worked for Joe, and I and our wives decided we had about twenty, twenty-five of them here one time. We were going to bring them, they like to go to your house so we brought them here in these rooms we are sitting in and we had a dining table in there and we set up another dining table in here. And we decided we were going to fix filets for them because they like steak and Jack Daniels of course. Right KEITH MCDANIEL: Steak and Jack Daniels. CLYDE HOPKINS: Those guys came in this house and they said can we look around and I said sure. They were all over. They went in the basement, they went up in the attic, upstairs looking this house over. They couldn't believe it. KEITH MCDANIEL: This is probably a big house for them wasn't it. I mean -- CLYDE HOPKINS: They had one about like these two rooms. KEITH MCDANIEL: Exactly, exactly. CLYDE HOPKINS: And they were sitting here at these dinning tables and my wife makes these oatmeal muffins that just melt in your mouth. And I said well I don't think the Japanese eat much bread. I never see them eat any bread when I'm over there. KEITH MCDANIEL: Right. CLYDE HOPKINS: And she said i'm going to fix them anyway. And she fixed those oatmeal Muffins and she passed them around the table sitting here and the guy over here took one and she came on around and got the basket about where she is and he reached across the table and got him another one. KEITH MCDANIEL: and got him another one. He gobbled that one down didn't he? CLYDE HOPKINS: They gobble them, they ate so many muffins I'll tell you. I never saw the Japanese eat bread before. Now what do they eat desserts over there. You and your wife had made all these pies and they ate those just like they ate those muffins. Something they haven't had to eat before, but they really liked it. KEITH MCDANIEL: Well my goodness. CLYDE HOPKINS: We but the dog on for them as much as we could when you got a customer that big. KEITH MCDANIEL: Oh yeah, absolutely. CLYDE HOPKINS: The sky is the limit. KEITH MCDANIEL: Exactly, exactly. Well thats, so and they were a big customer? CLYDE HOPKINS: Oh yeah-- KEITH MCDANIEL: Did you have other, i'm sure you had other customers like that. Was France buying any from us then? CLYDE HOPKINS: No they were making their own. They started with their own gaseous diffusion plants, they got the technology from here. KEITH MCDANIEL: Sure. CLYDE HOPKINS: And the British and the Dutch started to make centrifuges. KEITH MCDANIEL: Right. CLYDE HOPKINS: And they made theirs the centrifuges. The british had a gaseous diffusion plant too. KEITH MCDANIEL: Did they? CLYDE HOPKINS: Yeah and but the dutch folks, uh along with British started a huge program of producing over there. it was little about this long. KEITH MCDANIEL: Oh really? CLYDE HOPKINS: Yeah and about that big. Didn't separate much at the time but-- KEITH MCDANIEL: Baby centrifuges compared to what we had. CLYDE HOPKINS: Right. KEITH MCDANIEL: Had out here. CLYDE HOPKINS: I don't know whats going to happen to that program now. KEITH MCDANIEL: They uh, now lets talk a little big about that because in the mid eighties was when the K-25 was starting, was being shut down, the enrichment process. CLYDE HOPKINS: Yup. KEITH MCDANIEL: And but the centrifuge process was just coming along at that time. CLYDE HOPKINS: And we had very long ones in the ground. KEITH MCDANIEL: They were like fifty feet tall, something like that. CLYDE HOPKINS: i'm always worried whether i'll get into some security stuff cause I don't know whats secure. KEITH MCDANIEL: I don't have a securiry clearance, I'm not but I've talked to enough people I kind of know whats -- CLYDE HOPKINS: what is is. KEITH MCDANIEL: --what it is and what its not. I've run into one issue and I'll tell you about that after the interview but yeah if I know it, its not classified, trust me. But um anyway, so that about the time that the centrifuge program was coming along and K-25, tell me about the shutdown of the gaseous diffusion program. CLYDE HOPKINS: Well what happened was, of course you have to produce what you sell, got to sell what your produce. And K-25 plant was the oldest plant, it was the first and even after refurbishing it, it was still not producing uh like the other two were. So we set the system up so the product we shipped out of here and out of Paducah was at a small enrichment level. And we shipped it up to Portsmouth to get the highly enriched stuff done up there. KEITH MCDANIEL: Right. CLYDE HOPKINS: Uh but of course for the power plants its low grade three, four, five, six percent. KEITH MCDANIEL: Right, Right. CLYDE HOPKINS: So both Paducah and Portsmouth did some of that over time. But Portsmouth, Paducah when I went there was only enriching up to about a percent and a half. KEITH MCDANIEL: Oh were they? CLYDE HOPKINS: And then sending it up on to Portsmouth for them to finish it. KEITH MCDANIEL: Right, Right. CLYDE HOPKINS: It turned out the most economical way to do it based on the equipment they had and thats why. KEITH MCDANIEL: Oh Is that right? And all the highly enriched stuff we had, they had already figured out a long time ago that they had enough of that. At least they thought they had enough. CLYDE HOPKINS: I think it was 1963 when we quit making highly enriched stuff. Sometime about then. So its been a great business for the country and a lot of good people to work with. KEITH MCDANIEL: Right Right exactly CLYDE HOPKINS: I've really enjoyed everyday of working at the plants. KEITH MCDANIEL: Now what about life in Oak Ridge, tell me about your life and your families life in Oak Ridge. CLYDE HOPKINS: Well we couldn't be more pleased with everything that happened to us in Oak Ridge. Good school systems, great people to live around you, you know some of them and you don't know some of them. And its just a good place to live and work and sort of. You pick up certain values and I think its been valuable for our kids to be a part of this community as well as part of the Paducah community. it was a great place to live and work too. KEITH MCDANIEL: Now how many, you have -- CLYDE HOPKINS: Just two girls. KEITH MCDANIEL: Two daughters. CLYDE HOPKINS: But ones 51i tell you something and the other ones 40. Lets see yeah there they are. KEITH MCDANIEL: Right. CLYDE HOPKINS: Got two grandsons. KEITH MCDANIEL: Now where are they now? CLYDE HOPKINS: Well the oldest one graduated from Georgia about eighteen months ago in business and he then entered UT law school. KEITH MCDANIEL: Oh is that right CLYDE HOPKINS: He is over halfway through UT law school. KEITH MCDANIEL: Your grandson? CLYDE HOPKINS: My grandson. There were 180 kids in the class he is number, has been number one in the class every semester. KEITH MCDANIEL: Is that right? Now where are your daughters? CLYDE HOPKINS: My daughter is in, the one that has the sons lives in Knoxville, west knoxville. KEITH MCDANIEL: Oh okay. CLYDE HOPKINS: And the other, her other son is my grandson is in Memphis playing golf for the University of Memphis on scholarship. KEITH MCDANIEL: Oh really? CLYDE HOPKINS: As a matter of fact, we are going to go to Memphis either tonight or tomorrow morning early and he's going to be calling the memphis ball game, basketball game tomorrow. He's still in school, he's just a sophomore. KEITH MCDANIEL: Yeah. CLYDE HOPKINS: But he wrangled his was in to getting to announce the sports, basketball sports. He did some of that here in his school in Webb. Webb school over here and he has a sports show, him and two other guys have a sports show on their radio station. They have a radio station in Memphis on campus-- KEITH MCDANIEL: On the campus right., right. CLYDE HOPKINS: And so they put on a program every Monday, Wednesday, Friday and we listen to that on the computer. KEITH MCDANIEL: Oh Is that right? CLYDE HOPKINS: Yeah, so we're going to go down. We aren't going to, we could go see him except we want to get a radio somewhere so that we can hear him. KEITH MCDANIEL: Where you can, sure of course CLYDE HOPKINS: I don't care anything about seeing him. KEITH MCDANIEL: Of course, of course CLYDE HOPKINS: We are going to go by the Peabody and get us a room and find that station and listen to him announce that game. KEITH MCDANIEL: Listen to, thats going to be good. Now your other daughter, where is she. CLYDE HOPKINS: She is in Atlanta, she's a chiropractor. KEITH MCDANIEL: Oh Is that right? Thats good. But so they had, they had, you liked having them here in this community. CLYDE HOPKINS: Yes here and in Paducah. KEITH MCDANIEL: In Paducah. CLYDE HOPKINS: Now the older daughter graduated from Paducah. KEITH MCDANIEL: Oh did she? CLYDE HOPKINS: The other daughter, of course graduated from Oak Ridge High school. She went on then to UT and got a teaching degree and decided she didn't want to teach so she went to Alabama and got two years masters degree in counseling, social work, she did that for two or three years and decided that wasn't it so she came in one day and said i'm going to chiropractic school will you fund me? So she had a five year program in chiropractic school. KEITH MCDANIEL: There you go. CLYDE HOPKINS: Now she is working. KEITH MCDANIEL: Well thats good. it takes some of us a while to figure out what we want to do. CLYDE HOPKINS: Yeah, yeah. Somedays i'm not sure yet she knows what she wants to do. Not telling where she will end up. KEITH MCDANIEL: Right. CLYDE HOPKINS: She's not married. She's still single. KEITH MCDANIEL: Well so tell me what are the, I know you talked a little bit about this but lets just kind of wrap this up. What are the big things that your proudest of your career and your life. Besides family obviously. CLYDE HOPKINS: I was going to say family is what i'm most proud of. KEITH MCDANIEL: Sure. CLYDE HOPKINS: I think in my whole life, the thing i'm most proud of is where I grew up in the little country community which is ten miles out from Brownsville and was called Tibbs. And we might have had a hundred and fifty people in that community, two hundred. But it was such a great community to grow up. Everybody took care of everybody else. When one family got into trouble the other families bailed them out. We had two hurricanes go through there when I was growing up. KEITH MCDANIEL: Really. CLYDE HOPKINS: And some of the houses got destroyed and the community would just go build them another one in a few days. Everybody got another new house. it just works that way. Or if a fellow who owned a farm and was faming for a living go sick and couldn't work his farm, all the other farmers worked-- KEITH MCDANIEL: worked his farm. CLYDE HOPKINS: his farm so he got his income anyway. I remember seeing that kind of thing in action really impresses you when you get old enough to see it and appreciate it. KEITH MCDANIEL: Sure. CLYDE HOPKINS: I think thats the thing i'm most thankful for is getting to grow up like that and my wife just grew up four miles down the road in a little community called Nutbush. KEITH MCDANIEL: Is that right? CLYDE HOPKINS: Nutbush has a famous person from there. KEITH MCDANIEL: Oh really? CLYDE HOPKINS: Tina Turner. KEITH MCDANIEL: Oh really? CLYDE HOPKINS: Came from Nutbush. KEITH MCDANIEL: Is that right? CLYDE HOPKINS: And her, my wife's sunday school teacher. Tina was a little girl lived on her farm in Nutbush. KEITH MCDANIEL: Is that right? CLYDE HOPKINS: And just down the road at the next little community called Henning is the guy, that was around here and was so famous and died. Wrote roots. The guy that wrote roots. KEITH MCDANIEL: Yeah Alex Haley CLYDE HOPKINS: Yeah Alex Haley is from there. KEITH MCDANIEL: Really. CLYDE HOPKINS: Yeah. KEITH MCDANIEL: Well my goodness. CLYDE HOPKINS: I won't tell the rest of this story on this thing but there is some more to that story that i'd like to tell you. KEITH MCDANIEL: Now, now your grew up, well I guess not poor but you didn't have anything. CLYDE HOPKINS: No but it didn't make any difference. KEITH MCDANIEL: it didn't matter and then you end up being the president of Martin Marietta. CLYDE HOPKINS: I can't explain it, it wasn't suppose to happen that way. There was nothing that I had that should have caused it to happen. I don't know. KEITH MCDANIEL: Well i'm mean i'm sure people, the way you progressed and your talking about your career earlier. You talking about how you graduated with an accounting degree and before long, it wasn't to long till you were running the whole central accounting office for Oak Ridge. CLYDE HOPKINS: Right. KEITH MCDANIEL: So-- CLYDE HOPKINS: I guess I got a lot of lucky being in the right place at the right time. KEITH MCDANIEL: And I guess your probably a, your talking about a Al Bissell being a politician, I guess there are certain elements from Al that your probably learned. CLYDE HOPKINS: Oh I learned a lot from Al. KEITH MCDANIEL: You probably learned how to talk with people and smile at them when you were screaming inside. CLYDE HOPKINS: When I came into the plant, they had then what they called a nineteen day clearance which means they could put you in the gate but you couldn't see anything classified. So they brought us out, I was broke when I came here for the interview. They said well it will take about three to four months to get you clearance. I said I can't wait, i've got to have some money. KEITH MCDANIEL: Sure. CLYDE HOPKINS: So they put me on a nineteen day clearance and I went down and Al knew he couldn't give me much to do so he toured me all over that plant two or three times a week. KEITH MCDANIEL: Is that right? CLYDE HOPKINS: He knew everybody by name from the janitors on up and got to see people and know people, that was the best thing that ever happened to me was getting to know so many people so quickly. KEITH MCDANIEL: Oh i'm sure. CLYDE HOPKINS: Coming on the pay roll. KEITH MCDANIEL: Oh i'm sure, oh i'm sure. And I guess just watching him and the way he interacted with people. You learned a lot. CLYDE HOPKINS: He's unbelievable. It's unbelievable. KEITH MCDANIEL: Huh. My goodness. CLYDE HOPKINS: He trained me a lot. KEITH MCDANIEL: Well good. CLYDE HOPKINS: its been a good run for me. KEITH MCDANIEL: Well is there anything else you want to say, anything else you want to talk about. Nows the time. You know, knows the time. CLYDE HOPKINS: I would just simply like to close by saying what outstanding managers i've been privileged to work for, to learn from, to allow me to progress in the organization. I think I had seventeen different bosses. I counted it up while I was out here in these plants working. KEITH MCDANIEL: Right CLYDE HOPKINS: And I only had one that I didn't like, respect and learn from. So one out of seventeen makes a -- KEITH MCDANIEL: Thats pretty good. CLYDE HOPKINS: So I had a lot to learn from all of them. And Roger Hibbs was the guy who was President on the Union Carbide and he taught me a lot. And his senior Vice President Paul Vanstrum. Great teacher, great teacher. I worked for him when I worked in Paducah. I reported to Paul. KEITH MCDANIEL: Is that right? CLYDE HOPKINS: And its people like that along the way, starting with Bissell that just really helped me. in all these interviews have your ran across anybody who talked about the biggest character ever in Y-12 named Fred Uffelman. KEITH MCDANIEL: No, tell me, tell me about him. CLYDE HOPKINS: Fred, he was one of a kind. KEITH MCDANIEL: Was he? CLYDE HOPKINS: When, Bissell worked from him and I worked for Bissell. KEITH MCDANIEL: Okay. CLYDE HOPKINS: Except he sort of took over and then let me work for Bissell. He sort of supervised me. KEITH MCDANIEL: Right. CLYDE HOPKINS: And he, he was about the most foul mouthed guy i've ever seen in my entire life. KEITH MCDANIEL: Really? CLYDE HOPKINS: But he loved to beat up on people. I mean he, obviously when your new you make a lot of mistakes. KEITH MCDANIEL: Sure. CLYDE HOPKINS: And he, I can't say this on the-- KEITH MCDANIEL: Thats okay. CLYDE HOPKINS: So sometimes he'd get mad at me, i'd make a mistake he'd say you stupid [mouthed words] do you ever think between he hours of 8 and 4:30. KEITH MCDANIEL: Did he scare you? CLYDE HOPKINS: No he made me mad but he didn't scare me. Number of times I took my badge in and laid it on his desk and said I quit. KEITH MCDANIEL: Is that right? What was his name CLYDE HOPKINS: Fred Uffelman. U-F-F-E-L-M-A-N. KEITH MCDANIEL: Fred Uffelman. And was he like a uh, I guess he was like a -- CLYDE HOPKINS: A department head. KEITH MCDANIEL: Department head. CLYDE HOPKINS: He was in charge of Uranium control and statistical processing control and that kind of thing. I hired into his department, thats where Bissell worked. KEITH MCDANIEL: And you just think he liked that, he liked being like that. CLYDE HOPKINS: Oh yeah. But he'd on Saturday morning when I was doing the scheduling work. And even though theoretically worked for Bissell I ended up working for this guy. He'd call me at six o'clock every Saturday morning and say i'll pick you up at 6:30, we're going into work. KEITH MCDANIEL: Is that right? CLYDE HOPKINS: Yeah. KEITH MCDANIEL: Oh my goodness. For how long did that last. CLYDE HOPKINS: We'd stay about three o'clock that day. Every Saturday was like clock work to me. Of course my wife was upset about that. So one weekend, we lived down at the apartment and the phone was down in the living room and she took that phone off the table and moved it down on the rug and covered it up with other pillows. And when he called the next morning I didn't answer because I didn't hear it. KEITH MCDANIEL: Sure. CLYDE HOPKINS: So I went in on Monday and said where the hell where you over the weekend. And I said I was home Fred, you didn't call. He said I did call. I let that damn phone ring off the wall and you never answered it. Well she didn't tell me till much later what she'd done. KEITH MCDANIEL: Thats funny. CLYDE HOPKINS: But he was good for me. He hardened me for whatever life could give. That was some of the best training you could have getting started. KEITH MCDANIEL: Right. CLYDE HOPKINS: Because no body was going to treat you worse than he did. But of course finally beyond all that crusty stuff I could see he had a big heart. KEITH MCDANIEL: Right. CLYDE HOPKINS: He really wanted you to help you and help you do well. But he had a strange way of doing it. I guess I learned from that i'll be better to go the other way. Be nice to people and encourage them to get on your team. KEITH MCDANIEL: He uh, I've never heard of him before. CLYDE HOPKINS: Well he died. KEITH MCDANIEL: I'm glad you shared that story. CLYDE HOPKINS: He was the brightest guy, one of the brightest guys i've ever known in my life. And he had a heart valve problem and this was back in the sixties. And they hadn't started that kind of heart surgery much. They'd been doing at the Cleveland clinic. KEITH MCDANIEL: Right. CLYDE HOPKINS: And he went up there for surgery and replaced that valve with a pig valve. Well I think now, one of the first in the country. KEITH MCDANIEL: Huh. CLYDE HOPKINS: Came back, got into pretty good shape and then he was going to take a trip to Europe. A five week trip to Europe and when you get those things you are suppose to take Coumadin to keep your blood thin. KEITH MCDANIEL: Right, Right. CLYDE HOPKINS: Well he decided he wasn't going to be able to check it while he was over there so he just wasn't going to take it while he was gone. KEITH MCDANIEL: Oh my goodness. CLYDE HOPKINS: And he didn't take it for six weeks. Came back home in a little bit and got in bad trouble. KEITH MCDANIEL: Yeah. CLYDE HOPKINS: and died from it. KEITH MCDANIEL: Oh my goodness. CLYDE HOPKINS: Basically ended up killing himself by not taking that medicine. KEITH MCDANIEL: Wow. My goodness. CLYDE HOPKINS: Even on top of all that he was an athirst. KEITH MCDANIEL: Oh was he really? Oh my goodness. CLYDE HOPKINS: Well he said he was. KEITH MCDANIEL: The are a lot of people who say they are but when the rubber meets the road that might change. CLYDE HOPKINS: Well I remember when he was getting ready to go to Cleveland for that surgery, he called me and said I don't believe there is a God but in case there is one, will you send up a little prayer for me. KEITH MCDANIEL: Oh my. CLYDE HOPKINS: All the people i've worked with have been, I've just been so fortunate. So fortunate, wouldn't change a thing in my life I don't think. Don't know of anything I'd change. KEITH MCDANIEL: Well good thank you very much for taking time to talk to us. CLYDE HOPKINS: I'm sure you've heard more than you'd like to hear KEITH MCDANIEL: Oh no. [END OF AUDiO]